Time and Effort

February 5, 2009 at 3:32 pm 31 comments

Some days I wonder why I keep playing this game while there are those people that knowingly circumvent the rules and don’t work for their accomplishments. This is one of those days. Normally, I would not care if others mod so long as they do not affect my gameplay. I also would not call out people to respect their own decisions, no matter how immoral they may seem to me. However, this one is so blatantly obvious and strikes so close to me that I had to write about it.


Let me give you some background. I had spent the better part of the last month training music to rank 1 and had just completed it in a bit under 200 hours. My method is simple and straightforward, start playing and cancel if it sounds bad or is not a default song that gives experience since they are classified into different ranks. Usually, you to listen to it for a few seconds before you know if you should cancel or not.

This brings us to what I saw today in Tir Ch4 when I logged on after maint today. Milfeulle was training music playing. Ok, that is normal. However, there were some things that I picked up on immediately.

  1. Songs were cancelled within 1 or 2 notes being played.
  2. Songs that were not cancelled were all perfect.

It is unlikely to know the type of song within 1 or 2 notes of playing, especially considering the variation of quality. Throughout all my time playing, even with high dex, perfects only happen 1 in every 3 successes, not all the time. He was also not responsive to people talking to him.

Now, I do not wish to accuse Milfeulle of illegit behaviour, and I do consider him a nice guy and is helpful to talk to. However, I just feel like that it is sad that an achievement that should be extremely hard to obtain and would make one proud to achieve has been whittled down to nothing more than pressing a button and making lunch.

Oh, what a world we live in.

Addendum: To clarify some points because people are replying (here and other forums) without understanding this post (or in cases, not even reading it):

  • No scroll was used, it is all default music.
  • Rank is at least rank 7, so scrolls don’t give exp. Anyone who devotes their time to training music knows training up to rank 7 is not even the tip of the iceberg.
  • Even if you cancelled after the first note, the delay in timing will cause more than 1 note to be heard before the song is stopped.
  • I was not the only person who tried to talk to him; this includes people who are friends with him. We are on friendly terms and talk occasionally.
  • I am not naive and know Milf and other people use various types of mods.
  • This post is more for me writing about it because it just downright bothers me and I have to get it off my chest.

Having said that, Milf has commented on the matter, and I had not intended for this to be a long drawn-out affair. You can go do that on Nexon forums.

Entry filed under: Mabinogi. Tags: , , .

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  • 1. RenRen  |  February 5, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    I kept smacking him and smacking him and calling him and poking him but he would not respond to me :( I think everyone saw the blatently obvious autoclicking today in tir.

  • 2. Aston  |  February 5, 2009 at 5:01 pm

    If he were unresponsive, wouldn’t it be a botting (ie. not mod but [imo] a hack)?

  • 3. cidninja  |  February 5, 2009 at 5:14 pm

    if only this were the first time milf cheated to get ahead in mabi.

  • 4. Naiya  |  February 5, 2009 at 5:21 pm

    Doesn’t surprise me a bit.

    That’s Present for you; “Screw the rules, we have money.”

  • 5. Akani  |  February 5, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    I’m not sure exactly what happened, but yes, there are songs with one note at the beginning of the song which indicate if the song is perfect or not. If it is not one whole note, then it has mistakes in it. Although Milfeulle should have listened to others instead of being unresponsive.

    Congratulations on rank 1 playing. Thats amazing! I’m only up to rank 8…

  • 6. Milfeulle  |  February 5, 2009 at 6:22 pm

    Sorry if my method is unfair, however I did work on it in the distance past but in fact I’m trying to get my master title now since AP requirement is way too high for either this skill or fishing which I de-rank to 6. If you say it is unfair and yes it is for those who want master title so badly. I understands how unfair it may sound, but you do realize I didn’t use a camp nor dungeon to do this since I don’t think there will be a huge negative response, but since it happened and I see people talked about me, then I’ll put it stop on my master title.

  • 7. Sin SIlifi  |  February 5, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    Erm… You don’t need to cheat to do that. I am often asked to make music that is either purely one note or that has a beginning note to indicate a fail or success. I know for a fact that I play all songs through regardless and I’m usually busily watching anime (aiming for 616 watches of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni!).

    However, most people that haven’t gotten high enough rank yet will make songs that are for playing training. Also, realize that there ARE one second songs. And some of us are more practiced in music and can tell when something just doesn’t sound right. If you actually get used to it, you don’t need to cheat to figure stuff out.

    BTW, I cheat, I have all the songs I play recorded into perfect form and play them as I do stuff like homework. Which means if I hear one of my songs played, I know which song it is. If I hear a wrong note, I key in on it instantly.

    BTW, I cheat in another way. I’ve taken music lessons and I do work as a Video+Sound editor and I do other things like filming.

    So those of us that are really serious about the games we play have an advantage. No different from people obsessed about say… language and history and math and English. Then again, I’m one to talk… I can’t decide on what I want to do so I just do a little of everything XD. I’m mostly a freelancer although I am often called in by the same companies… And I spent a long time with Video and Sound.

  • 8. Sai  |  February 5, 2009 at 6:41 pm

    I wonder if I’ll be able to be the first on NA to get the master title, while still doing it legit.

  • 9. kgptzac  |  February 5, 2009 at 6:50 pm


    well i don’t plan to get this skill’s master title until… there’s music theory R1

  • 10. Milfeulle  |  February 5, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    @Sai: yes if no other people trainning as I did before, but you never know since they can either hide in dungeon or inside camp or secret location,
    @Arietta: I didn’t know it was such a big deal. But what happened when a person who can not hear, or people who don’t have a speaker wants to train playing instrument to master? What kind of world do they live in? We all have certain advantage on something but we might not want to see or to believe the truth are, but in either way rules are rules and I do acknowledge that I breaked it, but I can promise you that I did pay the effort for this skill, and no one will see me playing instrument again, either public or private, or master title for this skill.

  • 11. Akumu  |  February 5, 2009 at 7:05 pm


  • 12. Micchi  |  February 5, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    @Aston: To me, mods are client side. Hacks are server-side. But that’s just my own definition.

    @Naiya: I won’t generalize to Present members. I’m friends with some of them.

    @Sin: Your point is mostly valid, but does not apply. Past rank 7 you cannot use scrolls, you need to use default music. A lot of these default songs are similar and it is difficult even for a musically inclined person to tell the difference in one note (you cannot judge tempo).

    @Milf: I still think your intentions aren’t totally bad, and I won’t doubt that you did spend time doing it legit. However, it just goes against how I play. I just wanted to write about it since it bothered me so much. If you wish to continue doing so, it’s up to you. It’s your game to play and I’ll play mine my own way. Again, it’s just a difference in our gaming methods. I’ll still bother you every now and then to ask stuff ;)

    @Sai: You will receive my wholehearted congratulations if you do so. Keep at it!

  • 13. Sin SIlifi  |  February 6, 2009 at 5:26 am

    Milf is gone… Milf… Where is Milf? I can’t find him. GM Island… He’s hiding there, isn’t he? Why? Why does everyone leave me?

  • 14. Lecture  |  February 6, 2009 at 9:53 am

    Congratulations on Rank 1! Proness :3

  • 15. Alexander  |  February 6, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    Well just so everyone knows x.x, client modifications are completely legal, in fact GM Boogeyman on Ruairi saw my friends mods, just simple ones nothing having to do with music playing and all, and he told her that he liked them but there were better ones out there lol.

  • 16. Micchi  |  February 6, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    @Alexander: They violate the Terms of Service. However, GMs don’t care enough to do anything about it. It’s become a part of Mabinogi that most players know of, so the most common mods would be overlooked. Personally, I don’t care about people’s visual mods either. It still doesn’t make them legal by the technical term of the word.

  • 17. Alexander  |  February 6, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    Well technically anyone playing on your account other than you is also a violation x.x, but yeah like you said I doubt the GM’s would do anything about it when in the KR server they actually recommend sites with PMG mods to the players lol

  • 18. Mix  |  February 6, 2009 at 4:35 pm

    They recommend THEIR sites. The mods made on NA are not all legit and tend to be mostly all lies unless you get it from a trusted friend. Plus, I don’t play with mods, so yeah. Also, I doubt GM Boogeyman talks to anyone. Personally, I’ve never seen him myself.

    Also, Micchi does have a point. Read the ToS and you’ll see it’s in violation.

  • 19. Serenity  |  February 6, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    If i may have a say in this. I have watched arietta spend weeks in his house spamming the play button and listening for a good while before cancelling and trying a song again. Doing it manually this way arietta spent months getting his play up in a very I will admit, obsessive way. (Grinding like that is not healthy). That is why ari is very upset that milf used an obvious bot to achieve something in a quarter of the time that it took ari and rightfully so. Arietta has always made it a point to be as legit as possible and some may say he is insane for that so naturally it bugged him to see blatant botting and it was probably blatancy that bugged him the most.

    Whether you bot or not, or hack or mod, that is your personal buisiness and as such It is probably best to leave it personal. Take it to a dungeon, a camp, your house, but don’t sit in tir and rub it in everyone’s face. This may be a game but Michael Phelps would not have smoked marijuana on the camera during the olympics trying to achieve his gold medal.

  • 20. Serenity  |  February 6, 2009 at 4:41 pm

    GM saraphim suspended 4 people in Tir one day for just speaking about the mods they had.

  • 21. Alexander  |  February 6, 2009 at 8:36 pm


    Actually someone lied about the friend of mine that talked to Boogeyman, and my friend’s account was being monitored to see if she could hack, which she obviously couldn’t, so he talked to her and could see everything she was doing on her account at the time, AND saw the mods she was using. Also if KR servers only recommend their sites then why is yydzh.com one of the most referred to sites by devcat and the KR server?

    I’m not saying that I’m supporting the mods that help you advance music playing or any other mods that help advance skills, I’m saying that mods that let you see CP and PMG mods that change the way you look, but only to you hence “client mod” are perfectly fine in my opinion since it doesn’t change gameplay at all -_-. Btw it’s also illegal to have an account when you’re under 13……………..guess how many 10 and 11 year olds there are on mabi.

  • 22. Cali  |  February 6, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    @ Mix
    GM Boogeyman is the one that I see MOST in Tir and I have actually talked to on multiple occasions. Idk where you camp out, but I guess it’s not where he likes to be. The TOS talks about mods that affect gameplay, the ones that Alexander are talking about don’t. They’re the stupid ones that just mod the way you see things; like having pretty underwear or a Katana instead of a wooden blade. It’s just silly, pointless things like that; nothing like cheating to get your way up in ranks::: ”Modify the Software, Cash Items or the Service to change ‘game play’ including, without limitation, creating cheats and/or hacks or using third-party software to access files in the Software or Service” So if you’re not cheating, hacking the way you do things, or using a 3rd party software (such as a macro) it’s fine. o-o. So… then… would making yourself pretty for yourself not be fine as well…….? It isn’t changing the gameplay as far as I can see.

  • 23. Cali  |  February 6, 2009 at 8:51 pm

    Oh and
    @ Serenity
    That’s not unlikely since I’ve heard rumors that Sera likes to camp out and ban bots as they appear and ban players like mad as well. That’s probably who finally banned Indaru *snickers*

  • 24. Skion  |  February 7, 2009 at 12:28 am


    What was that? was that supposed to be an argument?
    All you did was cheat to get dex. Who cares if you don’t play music.
    Whatever, not like its the first time you cheated, won’t be the last, I no longer am suprised.

  • 25. Xer  |  February 7, 2009 at 12:34 am

    “I didn’t know it was such a big deal. But what happened when a person who can not hear, or people who don’t have a speaker wants to train playing instrument to master? What kind of world do they live in?”

    Oh man, I don’t even know how to reply to this.

  • 26. steparu  |  February 7, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    waao lots of replies!

  • 27. Kanaka  |  February 7, 2009 at 8:13 pm


    you are a fake!

  • 28. Kyuri  |  February 8, 2009 at 3:22 am

    i honestly don’t care who does what… that’s life T-T

    i’ve come to realize something during my 19 years of life:

    whatever it is that i think i’m good at, there are many out there who will own you in variety of ways

    such sad ways to look at things

  • 29. Anonymous  |  February 8, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    It don’t surprise me that derp would be in here just to bash someone, really get a life.

    in b4 I get told to get a life too

  • 30. delight  |  February 8, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    Think about the purpose of music playing. It is a skill that brings hapiness to everyone else (if it’s used correctly). In Taiwan server almost every minstrel used certain types of macros to rank the music playing skill, because it is just pointless to stare at the screen and keep pressing F9 or whatever key for music playing.

    You can use the tape or whatever thing to hold your play button mechanically and go to sleep. Is that fair enough?

    Also, not all the macros are bad. I’m using macros during my performances (e.g., this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFarOZfu42E&fmt=18), simply there’s no way for me to type a line of lyrics within 4 seconds.

  • 31. Micchi  |  February 8, 2009 at 8:34 pm

    @delight: There are many purposes to music playing. One of which is obtaining DEX or the master title, not to play beautiful music. Everyone’s views on degrees of fairness vary. Just because the majority of TW minstrels use macros to rank music playing doesn’t mean it is right. But then, if you believe it is fair, there is no way anyone can convince you otherwise.

    Commenting will now be closed as the purpose of this post has been fulfilled. Thanks for your comments and opinions. There are numerous threads for further debate on legality and fairness of mods, hacks, macros and related issues on Nexon and fan forums, should you be interested.

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